Mark A. S. GRACE

Jun Qtr 1959 (Apr-Jun) -

• Name	Mark A. S. GRACE
  Born	Jun Qtr 1959 (Apr-Jun)	Rowley Regis District, Staffordshire, England
  Gender	Male
  _UID	3326FF6C8FF5DB4F929CE2DDDDE15E0B86B7
  Person ID	I16250	YoungFamily
  Last Modified	10 Jul 2020

  
  

  Father	Anthony GRACE
  Mother	Margaret M SANDERS
  Married	1955	Birmingham, Lancashire, England
  _UID	D700F3F74CE34240B460741736A586299BD1
  Family ID	F4966	Group Sheet  |  Family Chart

  
  

• Notes

  Mark GRACE and Susan Dara YOUNG are 6th cousins. Their common ancestors are George LOCK and Edith WHITE. Mark Grace Gedmatch #A027914 also Z424787 Gedcom ID 1004498 : P1013 FACEBOOK Message to Mark Grace in response to his message to me on 6/20/20 Hi, Mark, Yes, we have corresponded sometime ago in the past when I discovered your descent from George Lock and Edith White. You descend through their son Thomas christened 4 Jul 1779 at Bradford-on-Tone. I descend through Thomas' sister Joan christened 9 February 1783 at Bradford. She married John Smith 26 Mar 1802 at Bishops Hull. As such we are full 6th cousins to each other. To my mother you were 5th cousins once removed. At the time we communicated my mother was the only one who had DNA tested (FTDNA). Her kit is on Gedmatch #T487091 or #QN2542127. Since that time I have also had my DNA tested (FTDNA) and mine is also on Gedmatch as Kit #PV4445865. At the time we originally communicated, as the autosomal DNA was still in its infancy and as the individual shared segment amounts were low - the largest being to my mother 5.7, I think you had some reservations that there was a biological link between us. Having dealt with nothing but small segments in my research owing to the dearth of family descendants in the most recent 3 generations of my family, I had much experience and knew that the DNA supported my primary source research. Since that time, of course the science has evolved and now with the Shared Centimorgan Project it is possible to predict relationships between people who share small percentages of DNA. That project correctly captures your probable relationship to my mother and to myself. For your records I am sending the comparison (from Gedmatch) for my mother's kit and my kit to your kit #Z424787. To my mother's kit T487091 Chr B37 Start Pos'n B37 End Pos'n Centimorgans (cM) SNPs 4 186,932,780 187,916,497 3.4 323 5 38,261,833 40,960,278 3.3 617 5 80,655,709 82,986,149 3.9 502 11 63,120,020 67,789,837 3.6 850 14 32,385,574 33,374,542 3.6 310 14 101,634,591 103,491,628 3.0 367 16 78,660,658 79,466,556 5.7 499 18 7,417,189 8,247,249 3.7 227 18 71,247,537 72,156,747 3.6 403 Largest segment = 5.7 cM Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 33.6 cM (0.938 Pct) To my kit PV4445865 Chr B37 Start Pos'n B37 End Pos'n Centimorgans (cM) SNPs 1 52,024,718 54,769,756 3.2 585 4 133,955,962 137,662,425 3.4 496 5 10,152,686 11,543,318 3.5 453 5 80,655,709 83,047,922 4.0 497 16 79,086,731 79,581,596 3.4 255 Largest segment = 4.0 cM Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 17.4 cM (0.484 Pct) So, I'm glad that you have finally come back to me. Of course, we also share descent from the White family. Since our original correspondence I've extended both the Lock and White families back to the mid-1500s along several lines of ascent. The White family now has the following surnames in ascent: You can now call each other and see information like Active Status and when you've read messages. The White family now has the following surnames in ascent:FRY, MORLEY, WARE, CLEMENT, WILCOCKS and HOOPPER. The LOCK family has added the surnames of GILBERT, TEMPLAR and SYMONS. Susan Young --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you. I will have to digest later and will get back to you I have good coverage of my paternal C16, which is where your mum and me probably connect. She is shown in orange on the nexct image. All these connections are kniwn and unknown to the SW England area (Dorset, Somerset, GLS). As expected, due to the small match to your mother, I didn't expect a match between you and me. While this match is small, it seems to be shared with my sister, but sibling matches are not pure triangulation. Unlike my C16, my sister's C16 is evenly split between the SW English lot and the rest with my father's Derbyshire side. Overall, I will flag this small segment as a possible sahred ancestry and we will see if other matches come out of it. I have a few people I need to check to see if it comes up again, like a mutual 2C from this family line but nothing. I will did around for more. I have few matches attributed to tgis part of my family. The match to your mother is potentially consistent with our 5C1R relationship with common descent from my 5x GGPs LOCK=WHITE. Can I ask how you decided on which Joan FRY had the ancestor families you gave? There are a few around and none in Bradford on Tone where she married. Additionally the LOCKs seem to come from outside of the village as I have not found a suitable George LOCK baptism around 1710. Again, thanks for getting back to me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Regarding George Lock. His marriage in 1744, on the face of it, was a first marriage so he was likely born circa 1722/3. I have canvassed all of the parish surrounding Bradford and found a baptism in Taunton St. Mary of a George Lock 13 Mar 1726/1727. Parents were William Lock and Ann nee Townsend, William being a clockmaker residing on Fore Street. There were 7 children in this family but 4 of those children died either in infancy or in the first few years of life. William Lock died young and was buried 7 Jul 1741 at Taunton St. Mary. This George appears nowhere else in Taunton St. Mary - not for a marriage and not for a burial. So, he migrated. I am still collecting information on this proposed family unit so it is speculative at this time. In particular, I am looking into what became of his mother - who also vanishes from the records at Taunton St. Mary and his two siblings, John and Ann Lock. The STACEY line traces back in regular order through Bradford to John STACEY born circa 1590. His wife was Dorothea GILBERT also born circa 1590. She was buried at Bradford 27 Jun 1658. John STACEY was buried at Bradford 8 Mar 1670. Robert PRESCOTTs parents were James PRESCOTT and Justine TEMPLAR. Robert was baptised 21 Jun 1650 at Bradford. Some of these records are very faded, squashed and otherwise difficult to read. However, as a professional historical researcher and genealogist I have over 50,000 hours of experience in researching and reading British records. My specialties, beside DNA, is Mediaeval and pre-Reformation research. So, there are not many records that trip me up. Justine TEMPLAR was baptised 4 Jan 1629 at Bradford to Thomas TEMPLAR. Unfortunately, I have not yet found the marriage for Thomas and Justine's baptism lists no mother's name. Thomas TEMPLAR was baptised 25 Dec 1584 at Bradford to Alexander TEMPLAR and Agnes SYMON. Alexander was born circa 1550 and buried 18 Aug 1633 at Bradford. Agnes was buried 10 Dec 1597 at Bradford. As to Joan FRY, the new additions are along her husband's line I'm sending a screen shot of the pedigree I've put together for Richard WHITE's ancestry. Laurence CLEMENT comes in to Bradford circa 1640 and baptizes 2 children there, after the time that Elizabeth was born. It appears that he also held property in West Buckland. But, I have not yet pursued this family any further back in time. All I know of Laurence's wife was that her name was Elizabeth. However, as I have no marriage and no baptism for Roger WHITE's wife, also named Elizabeth CLEMENT, I cannot say that Elizabeth, wife of Laurance in the baptisms is the mother. Joanna NORTHCOTT is a bit of a serendipitous find. I knew Laurence WHITE's wife's name was Johanna. So, I went looking for their marriage and after trudging through the parish registers for parishes around Bradford with no luck, I turned to court records of various kinds. Then, in the Quarter Sessions roll for 1681-1682 I stumbled upon Bastardy examinations. 9 Jan 1682 as follows: Q/SR/150/11 Description (1) Evidence given by Joane Northcott of Norton Fitzwarren, Singlewoman, that she is with child by Lawrence White of Bradford, Husbandman also Weaver, who had carnal knowledge of her body in a pasture close belonging to Thomas Shattock of Norton Fitzwarren. Date 9 Jan 1682 Extent Open Access. Roger WHITE was baptised on 8 Feb 1682 at Bradford to Laurence WHITE and Johanna. I have not found the marriage of Laurence and Johanna, not even at Norton Fitzwarren. So, it may be that they had a heck of a time trying to find a vicar that would marry a couple when the wife was so close to delivery! Again, more work needs to be done on this. As does the work required to solidify Joanna NORTHCOT's ancestry. There are two baptisms at Norton Fitzwarren of Joane and Joanna's. I have chosen the more recent of the baptisms, viz 21 Dec 1655 as the other baptism took place 24 Jul 1649 to William NORTHCOT and Joane - Norton Fitzwarren. Nottcott William Stokes Joane m 22 Mar 1646/7 at Norton Fitzwarren. Regardless of whether Joanna's parents were Richard or William, they are both sons of Elias. If Joanna were the child of William she would have been 33 years old at the time of birth of Roger WHITE in 1682. If she were the child of Richard she would have been 27 years old. Both of these are a little too old to be caught short with an illigetimate child, so, again, more work needs to be done to correctly attribute the parents of Joanna. Lastly, Mary WILCOCKS parents were James WILCOCKS also spelled as WILCOX in the register and Cicilia HOOPPER. They were married 11 Jul 1603 at Bradford. James was buried 7 Dec 1621 and Cicilia was buried 15 Apr 1632. Susan Young ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thank you for all the info which I will review. On George LOCK, I had consider he was the one who married Elizabeth STACY prior to remarrying, but there is no clear information on his marriage or an age on burial to be sure which way to go. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's quite right. At that point I start the systematic search in all surrounding parishes out to a 12-mile radius - the 12-mile measure being the spacing of market towns. Susan Young ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Again, thanks for getting back to me. Regarding George LOCK, I think I will end my paper tail at the one who married Joan STACEY. I am not satisfied (based on lack of corroborative information – the Bradford on Tone records are thin with information) that the trail is clear. Since there are apparently no LOCKs in Bradford earlier, then I would assume George comes from outside the village. To make this work he is probably the one who first marries Elizabeth PRECOTT in Bradford in 1732 having settled there. He is not given of another parish. Based on records, I assume they were childless as there are no LOCK records until Elizabeth was buried in Bradford in Dec 1740. This would allow his remarriage to Joan STACEY in 1743. Based on age, het couldn’t be a child of George & Elizabeth. On the balance of probabilities, I think this would be a fit. In that case, to marry in 1732, George would be assumed to have been born in the 1710-1712 period. There are 2 or 3 that might fit, but I don’t have same confidence in the mid 1720’s late baptism to the clockmaker that you have. On the STACEYs, I am happy back to John. It helps when they are in the same village! Ditto the TEMPLAR story. Thanks for the leads on the WHITE line. I will investigate those further in due course. The story of Roger WHITE is interesting, as it does suggest he was born abt 1682. This would make the marriage at Bradford between a Roger WHITE & Marjery SMITH (son John born in 1704) a different Roger. I had only found the one child to Roger & Marj so had thought he was the one remarried in 1705 to Mary MORLEY. I hadn’t found Marjery’s death to put that to bed. Obviously, they cannot be one and the same as the 1692 marriage would be too soon for the 1682 Roger. I was wondering if Laurence & Joanna married at all. I haven’t noticed a death for her, but she may have died during childbirth and Laurence (or he paid for his or her family to) raised him, acknowledging paternity. There doesn’t appear to be any other children. Again, my many thanks. I appreciate the level of detail in which you responded. Mark Grace ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Mark Grace 10 Jul 2020 Thanks. There is another person descended from Joan LOCK so you might match. She doesn't match my side (3 kits) Hi Susan - Ali Cottey in the SOM Ancestors group is a close relative of yours. She matches your mum on 6 segments (so possible shared 2x greats inferred from the line back to Joan LOCK). There is an additional segment shown in your match to her, but since it didn't come from your mother, and the other 6 did, it is a good example of a false positive. Less than 7cM, despite the high SNP count. Comparing Kit T487091 (Susan Young for Lillian Penny) [Migration - F2 - T] and FR1016964 (*Ali) [Ancestry] Chr B37 Start Pos'n B37 End Pos'n Centimorgans (cM) SNPs 6 155,219,158 169,718,109 26.1 3,138 26.9 8 96,746,100 101,506,305 5.1 614 5.4 8 106,381,365 121,834,372 9.7 1,745 10.0 10 62,554,500 73,765,995 14.2 1,943 13.3 11 40,707,037 50,668,400 6.4 1,154 7.0 + 6.3 20 63,244 4,826,657 13.7 1,352 14.5 Comparing Kit PV4445865 (Susan Young) [FTDNA V1] and FR1016964 (*Ali) [Ancestry] Chr B37 Start Pos'n B37 End Pos'n Centimorgans (cM) SNPs 6 154,806,742 169,718,094 26.9 3,119 8 96,746,100 101,705,480 5.4 651 8 106,254,571 122,144,267 10.0 1,771 10 63,648,027 73,770,073 13.3 1,776 11 40,212,151 50,668,400 7.0 1,218 11 55,084,568 64,938,381 6.3 1,075 20 63,799 5,041,429 14.5 1,377 Largest segment = 26.9 cM Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 83.3 cM (2.323 Pct) Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 3.7 Let me know if anything is not clear. ------------------------------------------------------------------ from SDY 20 Jul 2020 Hi, Mark, Thank you for sending along that information. Yes, I already have Ali Cottey and her ancestry integrated into my PAF file. She is actually a triple cousin to both my mother and I on our Somerset ancestry - John Smith/Joan Lock; Robert Parker/Anne Elliot; and, William Baker/Mary Allen. When I communicated with Ali back in February she also mentioned that she has another potential common line in the MATTOCKS in Pitminster. Once I have an update from her about her Mattocks, it may well be that we share 4 common ancestral couples from 4 separate lines of ancestry. As I lecture in genetic genealogy I can provide the following information about the results in the Gedmatch comparisons as well as provide the reason why she may not be matching your Lock/White line. As regards the Gedmatch comparisons two things are happening. If you carefully compare the shared centimorgans on each chromosome you will see that in most of the instances I have inherited more of those chromosomes than my mother did. This is a direct result of the recombination of genes as they are expressed down through each generation. The extra tail that I have on chromosome 11 is not so much as a "new" gene introduction but rather a flag of the first segment on that chromosome pointing the way to a potential additional common ancestry with Ali.. Her ancestry appears to be deeply Somerset rooted and I have very few details of her paternal line or her mother's father's line. Secondly, here is a great opportunity to see the potential that hides within close genetic comparisons. If you look at the start and end positions on each chromosome between my mother and I you will see that there are variances. Looking at Chromosome 6 my mother's start position is 155,219,158. My start position on that same chromosome is 154,806,742. My end position on that chromosome is 169,718,094 while my mother's is 169,718,109. So, in effect, common ancestry to other matches can begin as early as 154,806,742 and end as late as 169,718,109. Other matches can begin earlier or end later than these two parameters but they include portions inside of these two points. However, if they have a significant cross-over of these positions, even if they only match segments in the middle of those positions, that is a reasonably good prediction that those other matches will match my mother or myself somewhere in the Smith, Lock, Parker, Elliott, Baker, and/or Allen ancestry. Conversely, your relationship to myself and my mother involves one ancestral line only, that being Lock. As the common ancestor to us is George Lock, who sits in your 8th generation and in my 8th generation the absolute maximum amount of DNA that can be inherited by either one of us from George Lock is 0.78%. Add in the effects of recombination and that maximum of 0.78% can be as low as 0.0001% or nil. So, the lack of a DNA match or a match below the generally accepted 7 cM, in the absence of an NPE or faulty documentary research, does not disprove a genetic match. This is where the small matches should never be dismissed unless those occur in the pile-up regions. Then those can be safely put aside. So, in relation to your relationship with Ali Cottey, you likely only share that one Lock line with her as well. George Lock also sits in her 8th generation. I have attached a screen shot of the chart of possible relationships produced by the Shared Centimorgan Project that shows our 5.7 shared cM. You will see that it shows a considerable number of potential relationships. Note that in our relationship of 6th cousins anywhere from 0 to 71 cMs is accepted as correct with the average medium number of shared centimorgans being 18. So, the 5.7 shared centimorgans is validated as a genetic relationship. I hope I've covered everything. If you have any questions send them on over to me.